Podcast episode transcript ↓
Josh:
When storytelling becomes part of your culture, everything changes.
It helps your staff feel connected to the mission, empowers your volunteers to share impact, and invites donors into a more meaningful relationship with your work.
So, how do you build that kind of culture from the inside out? What first steps or daily practices can you take to grow in confidence as a storyteller?
And how can you use storytelling to cast a bold, compelling vision that inspires action?
I’m Josh with Anedot, and welcome to Nonprofit Pulse, where we explore trends, insights, and resources that help nonprofits accomplish their mission.
On this episode, we’re joined by Nathan Young on the topic of using the power of storytelling to become more confident and engaging leaders.
Nathan is the founder of StoryCulture Consulting. For over twelve years, he’s been helping leaders, teams, and organizations harness the power of storytelling to connect, inspire, and lead the narrative.
He has worked with organizations such as Brookings, TEDx, Save the Children, WorldVision, the YMCA, and many others.
By blending storytelling with leadership, communication, and team-building strategies, Nathan empowers individuals to discover their most compelling stories and use them to build trust, foster engagement, and inspire action.
Hey, Nathan, thanks for joining us on Nonprofit Pulse.
Nathan:
Yeah. Of course. Thanks for having me.
Josh:
Yeah. Excited for our topic today.
Talking about using the power of storytelling to become more confident and engaging leaders and really looking at three different categories thinking through fundraising, organizational culture, and then also leadership vision.
What makes a story emotionally connect with supporters?
Josh:
So just starting out, when it comes to fundraising and nonprofits, what do you find makes the story resonate emotionally with donors and maybe share an example of a powerful story that you've seen or helped clients with that really moved people to action?
Nathan:
Yeah. Well, so one of the important things to think about when we talk about storytelling, especially storytelling for nonprofits, is there's two kinds of ways of thinking about storytelling.
One of them is where you're like, actually telling a story like, this happened and this happened, our nonprofit helped out this person to create a new life for themselves or get over this challenge that they had.
But another way of thinking about storytelling is the cognitive tool that we as humans use to make sense of the world.
And this is like a very primordial way that our ancient ancestors learned to make sense of the world that was around them.
Everything we encounter, everything we do and everything we see, we categorize in our brains as a story. So if you're a nonprofit, what you really want to think about as far as how to use storytelling to get into the hearts and minds of your donor base.
There is that like heartwarming story that you could tell, but it's also just understanding the concept of storytelling to have that automatic association with your donor base.
It's like, oh, this is a nonprofit that does good work. And so part of how you do that, it's not necessarily about like one particular story that really like sells.
It's about keeping that message out there pretty consistently, having lots of stories you're sharing about the good work that you're doing, whether that is helping people in need, whether that is serving your community, whether that is, helping small entrepreneurs in your area.
It could be anything that you're doing. But as long as you're sharing that message constantly so it gets stuck in the minds of your audience that like, this is what they do. They do a good job of it. They deserve my money.
Now, you've used storytelling to connect what you do, to them, giving you money for fundraising.
Josh:
Yeah, just thinking about an example from the past.
What have you seen that really jumps to mind when you think about a powerful, compelling story that moved folks to action?
Nathan:
Yeah. I mean, so one of the ones that, I mean, there's so many organizations I've worked with over the years that really do have like, very valuable stories.
And again, it's not always about like being able to tell that one heartwarming story, but it's about thinking about the stories that will relate to the person you're trying to connect with also.
So one organization I worked with here is a museum here in San Diego called the Mingei Museum, and they were doing a capital campaign to fundraise for a big remodel that they were doing.
Part of the way that they positioned the story for their audience is they had a couple of different tiers of people they were working with.
They were working with like younger millennials that were trying to be on the scene.
They were working with some middle aged art connoisseurs and people in the community, arts and culture community here in San Diego that maybe want to see that thrive here in the city. And then they were working with some older donors that want to leave behind a legacy.
So one of the ways we talked about it was thinking about these three groups and like what stories to appeal to them.
And I'll use the middle one, the one of the local arts and culture event goers and connoisseurs. And they want to see that thriving arts and culture scene here in San Diego.
And part of what they did is just constantly sharing, like, we're doing these events here.
We're hosting this speaker talk here about these different arts and culture topics, how to create a thriving art scene in San Diego, how to create jobs in the arts and culture scene in San Diego.
Just reiterating those ideas to reinforce that story that we are trying to present and create a thriving arts and culture scene here in San Diego.
So, again, it's not to say about a specific story, but it's tying your concept of what you're trying to do to a story that might be in the heads of your audience already.
Finding stories that connect when you don’t have a “big” story
Josh:
So thinking about newer nonprofits, maybe smaller nonprofits who may not think they have many big stories, as you just mentioned, how can they still tap into really the power of nonprofit storytelling to fundraise?
Nathan:
Yeah, and a lot of that comes down to like the vision of being able to say that our work here is to create this new kind of world, a new vision for the way that we could be living here, whether that's a community based vision or a larger worldwide vision, but sharing that vision with your potential funders as what you're trying to create, what you're trying to do to get them excited about your cause.
And a lot of times, that vision, it's not necessarily about like, you want to think a little bit bigger with that vision than normally you would think to just think like, all right, we're going to transform this community.
Like we're going to be a catalyst that creates a whole big change in the way that young people are learning about how to enter the workforce here in this community, or how we're dealing with drugs in this community or how we're dealing with housing in this community to make a new opportunity available for all of us here, and how this is going to benefit all of us as well.
So it's sharing a sort of a utopian idea of what could be possible through the work you're doing.
Josh:
Yeah, that dream mindset of what are your dreams? Is it no child in our community hungry? Is it no disabled person without support in our community?
Just having that dream be at the forefront and kind of at the top of everything that you're doing and showing like we can do this.
Nathan:
And I'd even take it a step further like what does the community look like where no children are hungry?
What does the community look like where no disabled person is struggling to manage their day?
Like how is that new way of looking at a community going to benefit all of us?
Why building a culture of storytelling matters for nonprofits
Josh:
Yes, I love that, I love that. So thinking about culture, and culture is a huge word, means a lot of things to a lot of different people.
But, what does it look like to build a culture of storytelling inside a nonprofit? And really, why is it so important for staff and internal alignment?
Nathan:
So one of the biggest challenges that I encounter with the organizations I work with is a lot of times the stories are happening on the programmatic level, but they've somehow got to get up to the people that are doing the fundraising and that they're talking to the donors and that they're doing the outreach for the benefit of the nonprofit.
And those that disconnect is just one of the biggest challenges.
So, one of the things I advocate for is this concept of a culture of storytelling to where they're making a point of sharing stories internally, regularly, and that can look like opening every meeting with a story that can look like sharing a story of the month in an internal newsletter.
And the value of this is as much as the value of this is about sharing these stories and connecting the dots from the program level to the fundraisers.
As far as getting stories up there, the other value though, is getting the whole team to think in the context of stories.
So when somebody knows that they're going to have to share a story at a meeting coming up, they're looking at the work they're doing for potential stories.
And now that's in their heads. They're on that wavelength. And so you do this. You get this culture of storytelling up and running.
Now it becomes this situation where people have that story ready to go, and somebody from fundraising can go talk to somebody in the programing level and be able to say like, hey, I'm about to have this conversation with this funder, like, what are this is the type of thing that appeals to them.
Do you have any examples of stories that you could share with me that I could pass along that might appeal to them as well? So that's part of the big benefit of it right there.
Josh:
I love that. And just being able to have that muscle memory of storytelling across the organization, whether it's in your accounting department or in your marketing department or even volunteers, right?
Being able to say, like we run on stories because our impact is directly related to these stories. And I think often I'm just thinking even internally here at Anedot like, we know what happened.
We know who were involved. But I don't think often we know, like, what the actual story is.
And so that's a good challenge for me, even just thinking through, over the past quarter, over the past year, what is the story in this area, or even more broadly across the whole organization?
Yeah. So super helpful, I love that.
Practical ways to encourage staff and volunteers to share stories
Josh:
So, how can organizations really encourage staff and volunteers?
Because you talked about getting that culture across the organization. How do you encourage that? What does those conversations look like?
And really, when it comes to the collection and the sharing side of it, what would you say to nonprofit leaders out there who are looking for guidance in that area?
Nathan:
So the big thing is it starts from the top and one of the just the quickest and simplest things that can happen is if you do institute something like, opening story for a meeting or, a monthly story in a newsletter is if whoever the executive director, the CEO, makes a point of going to that person that shared that story and saying, like, hey, I saw your story in the newsletter.
Thank you for sharing that. We really appreciate your good work.
Or if someone shares a story in a meeting, whoever's the highest level person in that meeting, make sure that the person above them hears the story and that person goes back to the original storytellers, says like, hey, Susan, pass along your story from that meeting. Thank you so much for the good work that you're doing.
So positive reinforcement about sharing these stories.
And this is like I mean, it's so powerful right there is that positive reinforcement.
It gets people like yeah okay, cool I feel acknowledged I feel like I'm doing a good job, and they're going to be more conscientious of the stories that they share in the future. That's one of the simplest ones.
I think a big piece of it also is just reminding, like, you mentioned, the accountants and maybe HR and stuff, but they don't always feel like they're connected to the mission, but they are.
They're serving the mission somehow and being able to have them look at the mission statement of the organization, the values of the organization, and connect to the work they're doing to those mission values, even if it doesn't seem like it's directly affecting the work of the organization.
It's something in the background. They're adhering to the mission and the values of the organization and the work they're doing one way or another. So being able to like, help them acknowledge that to the organization as a whole is really powerful to.
Josh:
Yeah. And there really is every area in an organization is tied to that mission and is tied to the success and impact of that mission.
And even just thinking about accounting, just thinking about the stewardship of the resources, right, that we were able to, negotiate a better rate on this software or this lease and how that equals more meals for kids because of this one decision that we were able to do.
You know, there's just so much opportunity, I think, in every nonprofit to tell stories, both on the kind of external. But also internally as well, which again, is great to celebrate.
And when you're mentioning that it just reminds me that principle of, what's rewarded is repeated. And that is so important in organizational culture.
Nathan:
Yeah. Yeah, definitely.
Why storytelling is central to leadership vision
Josh:
So, Nathan, you said that storytelling is really central to leadership vision.
Can you unpack what that means? And really why it's so powerful for nonprofit leaders?
Nathan:
Yeah. So on one hand, there's that piece we talked about earlier about sharing the vision for what the organization is up to.
Being able to share that vision in a way that's something bigger than what it seems like the organization is doing, like how you're going to be transforming the community through your work.
And I know, yeah, I worked at nonprofits most of my career, too.
It's tough like it is sometimes you're feeling good about the work you're doing. Sometimes you're feeling down. It could be tough. You're wearing so many hats.
And so being able to help your team connect with the work they're doing with the greater good they're doing for the community is really helpful and powerful for just for their own sense of well-being and connection to the work.
So that's one big part of it, too. And so part of that is like sharing that bigger vision of not just we're helping make sure no kid goes hungry.
But like, we're creating a community where kids don't go hungry. So the vision of that bigger community is powerful.
The other big part of it, especially from a leadership point of view, is the leadership of the nonprofit sets the emotional tone for the nonprofit.
Like they are able to set the tone for what level of vulnerability is acceptable, what level of forthrightness is acceptable. And if you have a leader that's comfortable sharing their own story, sharing their own vulnerabilities, sharing their own tensions and struggles, and being honest about like, this is what we're trying to create, this is what we're working towards.
These are the challenges that we're experiencing. This is how these challenges are affecting me. This is the responsibility I'm taking in addressing these challenges.
That sets a really powerful tone for the whole team to be able to share the challenges that they're experiencing and create a much more open dialog and communication about, like what the challenges are within the organization and how those challenges can be addressed more directly towards creating a more well-oiled machine for the greater good you're trying to do for your community.
And again, that starts with the leadership.
I know it's can be scary sometimes for leaders to tell the story, but they're actually like on a lot of levels, have a lot less at stake than the people that below them.
Because if somebody below them sticks their neck out, they could lose their job, or it could be a very difficult position for them for that day forward.
As a leader, you know, if you stick your neck out, that's kind of what you're supposed to be doing as a leader is pushing the envelope a little bit more.
So it really is important to set that tone within your organization.
Common mistakes leaders make when trying to share their vision or tell their organization’s story
Josh:
Yeah, that's a great segue into my next question, which is about common mistakes and pitfalls.
So what are some common mistakes that you see nonprofit leaders make, when they're trying to tell that vision?
I mean, obviously, it sounds like a lack of candor would be one, but I want to hear more common mistakes that you see that our audience can really, really learn from.
Nathan:
Yeah. I mean, cluelessness is the other one. And a lot of times what that looks like.
Just being honest about a lot of how nonprofits are structured, sometimes there is somebody that is running the nonprofit that comes from a lot more wealth and privilege than the actual staff of the nonprofit.
And when that person of wealth and privilege like you see these, satirical Instagram accounts of that nonprofit leader who's like, oh, bye, honey.
I'm going to the Bahamas this weekend with Charles. Make sure that you're making sure that all the kids get lunches at the schools and that we're sending out those donation forms to get a couple dollars from people of the community.
When the leader is at that level of wealth or privilege, and they're acting with a level of cluelessness about the lifestyle of the people they're supporting, or the people within their staff.
Like, that's a really bad one. And I see that happen quite a bit. I think one of the other big mistakes is, and this is kind of going to like go to like a bigger piece here too.
It's not neccessarily like a mistake in the moment, but it is a piece of yourself to work on as a nonprofit leader because so much of our hesitations to really express who we are, to share what's important to us, to be willing to even take a risk.
A lot of it comes to down to small thinking, and that small thinking can be like essentially a trauma response we learned in our lives.
And I'm not sure how familiar your audience might be with the concept of complex PTSD or complex trauma, but we get integrated into a milieu that we grow up in, where we learned that maybe sticking your neck out is unsafe, or we learned that speaking up is unsafe, or we learned that sharing who we really are is unsafe.
And we learned this at a very young age, like 3 or 4 years old, even before that. And then that colors our whole picture of the world, our whole lives, and to the point where we just structure our lives around never putting ourself in that unsafe position.
So you're not going to necessarily be a person that you realize, like there is a much more emotional story I could tell here, but I'm not going to tell it.
You're going to be a person that's just like, not in touch with your emotions to that level to tell that story, because being in touch with your emotions is unsafe.
You learned that a young age, this is a big thing for men especially, right?
So part of how that comes down to is you hear a lot of stuff about like trauma healing, and that's part of the process of becoming more comfortable with yourself and being willing to open up and realize that like, nothing bad's going to happen, you're going to be okay.
Because if you are in that place of trauma, something that might seem like, you just kind of maybe embarrassed yourself a little bit, that's going to feel like a mortal danger to you emotionally, but it's not.
And you have to slowly get yourself more comfortable in the world you're living in, more comfortable in your body, more emotionally well-regulated to where you're not so worried about making these kind of mistakes because you know you have faith in yourself.
You have the resilience to know that you can recover and you can move forward.
Josh:
I love that and it reminds me of an experience I had with a leader once that was always afraid of being first to market with something.
And first to market in a nonprofit context. First to the community with this service or this initiative and the thinking there was, well, we don't know how this might blow up.
So we're never, our culture is never going to be first to do anything novel. We're going to improve on what exists.
I always felt internally like that was, not so much good risk management, but more of a lack of courage. So it's interesting to hear you kind of unpack that.
Nathan:
Oh, 100%. This is like Brené Brown stuff, right? She's always talking about these type of topics.
Courage is such a misunderstood concept in our world. That relationship between courage and resilience is so powerful too.
And for that to, for nonprofit leaders to be able to cultivate that within themselves, because it has to be cultivated, is a very powerful thing that all leaders can do.
Steps to create a compelling narrative that inspires others
Josh:
So shifting gears a bit and thinking about, maybe a broader narrative across a nonprofit organization, how can a leader begin building that strong, compelling narrative that really serves the purpose of inspiring their team and inspiring donors, and even their community? How should they start?
Where should they start building that kind of grand narrative?
Nathan:
Yeah. So one of the important things to think about when you are creating this narrative is that so much of our way of relating to the world and being willing to accept the messages that we hear, it comes from the source.
And if we believe the source has credibility, then we're going to be much more inclined to believe that source and to align with what they're saying.
So essentially what that means is now you as a leader, one of your big goals is to create that credibility around yourself and what you're doing.
And so thinking about like, what does that credibility mean for the type of work that you're doing?
Like if you're doing the type of thing where you're trying to make sure that kids in your community are able to get lunches, part of that credibility is that, like you actually care about the kids and making sure that they get good lunches.
Part of that credibility is going to also be that, like, you've got a well-oiled machine for taking those donations and turning them into results in your community. Part of that credibility is going to be like getting the right people around you.
So thinking about what that credibility is going to be for your specific circumstance, and then starting to think about how you can reinforce what that credibility means for you.
So whether that's stories that you're telling, whether that's making good on promises, whether that's delivering the work, the results you say you're going to deliver, you start to build up this narrative around yourself as being a good resource, a credible resource, somebody that is worthy of respect and connection and essentially leadership.
How to define the change you want to create as a leader
Josh:
So, Nathan, previously you talked about boldly defining the change you want to create. And I want to dig into that, just a bit.
How do you help leaders clarify that change and speak from a place of vision instead of just tactics? And I think this kind of relates to the credibility piece you just talked about as well.
Nathan:
Yeah, definitely. And I’ll admit, this is hard.
And I think on a lot of levels, I think this is the type of thing that just about anybody needs an outside perspective on, because it is so hard when you're in the middle of the work yourself and you are thinking about next quarter, next fiscal year, you're thinking about like your donation pipeline and where the funding is coming from.
You're thinking of the people you need to hire, and then somehow you got to, like, zoom out and get the big picture view of the changes you're trying to create in your community.
And I think sometimes this is a lot of the value I bring to my clients is being able to, like, hear what they're talking about and just helping them see the bigger picture of what they're doing.
It doesn't have to be me, necessarily, but having somebody on the board that thinks this way, or even the CEO that thinks this way is just thinking bigger and thinking of not just the immediate effect your nonprofit is going to create, but the effect that's going to have on your community and the effect it's going to have on your world.
Like, what are the ripples that are going to come from the work that you're doing? And again, it's so hard to do when you've got your nose to the grindstone sometimes.
So a lot of times, the leaders I've worked with, they'll have a regular reminder to do this work for themselves.
They journal about it like once a week or once a month. But if you have other people in your life, in your organization that can help with this too, that could be really, really powerful.
First steps for leaders to grow in confidence as storytellers
Josh:
So getting practical, thinking about leaders who are listening today and they want to take a next step and grow in confidence as a storyteller, what are the first steps or daily practices that you would recommend to them?
Nathan:
So, this is going to seem like a little bit of a curveball, but not so much.
We talked about earlier. I really think that's so much of that work comes down to that trauma healing piece.
And I know there's some resistance for a lot of people that think that they are traumatized or that they have that, but that really is what holds us back so much when we're thinking about our own confidence and our own way of relating to the world.
I'll kind of give an outline for how this looks, because that trauma means like you're sort of like in this state of mortal fear at all times.
This comes down to like, you've heard of like the fight, flight, freeze thing. And there's also a fourth one called fawn.
And one of the ways of recognizing that maybe you are in a trauma place is to recognize that, like, maybe you might be adhering to one of these fight, flight, freeze, fawn ways of operating almost on a daily basis.
A lot of us are, a lot of us, especially for high achievers, we are.
So the fight is going to look like you're always kind of angry. You're always in competition. You're always got this like real like aggressive energy.
The flight is going to be a little bit more of like a nervous energy, or you're going to be avoidant of difficult situations, difficult conversations.
The freeze is going to look like a lot of exhaustion, a lot of indecision. And then the fawn is like, you're going to be looking to other leaders for guidance rather than finding that in yourself.
And so to the degree that any of that resonates with you, then, like, yeah, you're operating from a place of trauma. And this isn't to criticize anybody.
Like we all are dealing with this on some level or another, but when you're operating from that place, you're operating from a reactive place too and you're not necessarily fully centered in yourself and you're not fully confident in yourself.
So you're going to hesitate to share the stories you could be sharing about the work you're doing, the vision you're trying to create, and the world that you want to create in through your work as well.
That was sort of a roundabout answer, but I actually really think that, like, I've done so much public speaking coaching over the years, and for the longest time I would help people learn how to tell better stories from a public speaking point of view.
But I realized, like, I could teach them how to, they could be amazing storytellers.
They could tell the most amazing story in the world, but if they aren't doing it with confidence, it's not going to quite work. And that confidence really came down to recognizing when trauma was activated. It gets activated, especially when you're about to tell your story. When you're about to go up on stage, because you're exposing yourself, you're sharing something vulnerable about yourself that if you're coming from a place of tension, you're going to worry that someone's going to take that and turn it against you.
And it's just kind of like a weird kind of core feeling we're going to get. And if you get that feeling like, recognize that, yeah, maybe somebody might.
But like, you're strong, you could deal with it. And that trauma healing is so valuable for getting to that resilient mindset where you're ready to take whatever the world throws at you.
Closing thoughts
Josh:
So thinking about resources, Nathan, what are some resources that you would recommend to our audience on today's topic? Or even, maybe on the periphery of today's topic?
Nathan:
Yeah. I mean, so I talked about, again about that trauma piece, and I just really think that's such a valuable piece to look into.
And as much as I preach storytelling, that trauma is a story, that trauma is essentially you telling yourself a story that like, if I stick my neck out too far, this bad thing will happen.
If I don't hide myself, people will see me and something bad will happen. And so this is like the primordial stories that our mammalian and lizard ancestors gave to us as humans today that we need to deal with.
So I really do recommend a lot of like looking into this concept of complex PTSD and understanding like how it might be affecting your life because it shows up in leadership, it shows up in public speaking, it shows up at how you tell stories, and it's going to be showing up in your audience, too.
If you understand when your audience is coming from that place of fear, and you can speak to that and give them some reassurance, that can be really powerful way to communicate with them as well.
Josh:
Awesome. And as always, you can check out Nonprofitpulse.com, to find this episode and check out the show notes.
And, we will have Nathan's links there as well as some other resources on today's topic.
So last question, Nathan, this is my favorite question of every episode. If you were on stage in front of a thousand nonprofit leaders and can share one thing, one sentence about today's topic, with that audience, what would you say?
Nathan:
Oh, man. So, yeah, this is the toughest question for me when I was reading it and again, I would really like try to reinforce the idea of like complex trauma affects all of us.
So much of your confidence is based around how you see yourself through that trauma lens.
So if you can find a way to heal from complex trauma and understand how you're not coming from a place of centeredness when you're in that trauma body, but a place of reactivity, but instead you could, from a place of healing come from a resilient centered way of operating the world.
You're going to be so much more powerful, such a better leader, such a better communicator, and just have such a stronger effect on your community from coming from that centered, calm, resilient space.
Josh:
Nathan, thanks so much for talking about storytelling today. And again, this is a perennial topic.
This is not a topic that you pick up once and then you don't have to return. Every nonprofit out there is typically in one of three categories, either A, you're not doing any storytelling.
You're doing some storytelling, but it's really not inculturated or you're doing storytelling that’s inculturated, but it's not as effective as it could be.
And I hope that this episode today, really helps move the needle for your organization. But again, Nathan, thanks so much for joining us.
Nathan:
Yeah. Of course. Thanks for having me. Appreciate it.
Josh:
Hey, thanks for listening.
If you enjoyed this conversation, please share or leave us a rating and review wherever you listen to podcasts.
Also, head on over to Nonprofitpulse.com to sign up for our monthly newsletter, as well as check out all the links and resources in the show notes. We’ll see you next time.
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