Podcast episode transcript ↓
Josh:
Innovation goes beyond simply adopting new technology or chasing trends; it’s about integrating a disciplined strategy across your organization.
So, why should nonprofits embrace innovation as a strategic discipline, and how can this approach increase nonprofit impact?
I’m Josh with Anedot, and welcome to Nonprofit Pulse where we explore trends, insights, and resources that help nonprofits accomplish their mission.
On this episode, we are joined by Stewart Severino on the topic of nonprofit innovation as a discipline.
Stewart is the Head of Innovation at The Navigators and brings over 25 years of experience driving growth in both startups and large organizations.
Hey, Stewart thanks for joining us on Nonprofit Pulse.
Stewart:
Hey, Josh, good to be here. Thanks for having me.
What is innovation as a discipline and why is it important?
Josh:
Yeah, excited about our conversation today.
We're going to be talking about innovation as a discipline.
And you know, we've had a couple of episodes so far on innovation and excited to look at it from a different perspective, a different angle.
So maybe just starting out, can you explain what you mean by innovation as a discipline, and really, how does that differ from simply adopting new technologies or methods?
→ Check out our other innovation episodes: Nonprofit Innovation: Innovation for Social Change and Nonprofit Innovation: How Nonprofits Can Begin to Innovate!
Stewart:
Yeah, that's a good question.
Most organizations look at innovation as technology, you know, great ideas.
And so the idea behind having a discipline is a defined process, because when you have a defined process, it's repeatable, it's predictable, it's scalable.
You can execute that same type of framework in other areas as well.
So, changing everybody's perspective or idea around innovation requires a lot of indoctrination.
But it serves the organization well when they understand that, oh, this is something that is not squishy.
This is not where we throw ideas on the wall and see what sticks. We can't afford to do that, especially in the nonprofit sector.
So introducing innovation as a discipline really raises some eyebrows, because you can do a lot of exciting things with very little resource.
Josh:
Yeah. So you kind of alluded to some of the benefits, but what else would you share as far as the main benefits for nonprofits and in treating innovation as a discipline instead of maybe a one time initiative?
How can this approach transform their impact, as well as their operations?
Stewart:
Yeah.
When you begin with understanding the need of an individual or an audience, that helps to focus leadership or a product team or a service team around developing a solution based on that need.
Too quick are organizations willing to jump into, oh, I have this great idea.
I have this great methodology, I have this great technological solution that we can develop to serve this audience.
They're coming at it from an already developed product.
And we're all guilty of that. We're so good at what we've done in our experiences.
We have great technical skills or other sorts of skills. We have experiences.
And so it's so easy for a group of people to sit in a meeting room and start to ideate immediately without understanding the need of the audience.
Common challenges nonprofits can face when trying to implement innovation as a discipline
Josh:
I love that so thinking through challenges or hurdles, what are some common challenges that nonprofits are going to face when trying to implement innovation as a discipline, as opposed to an initiative or a short term focus?
How can they really overcome these challenges as well?
Stewart:
Discipline, the word itself kind of makes a lot of people cringe because is this another initiative that's going to require a lot of effort, right?
And so when people hear the word discipline, especially with innovation, like, oh is this another thing I need to add to my plate?
I already have little bandwidth. I can't just add something else.
And so part of the challenge is uncovering the myth or dispelling the myth that this is going to be just another effort.
It's not just another effort. We need to get past the current idea that people have about innovation.
And like I stated earlier, it's the big ideas and the technological solutions.
Another challenge is going to be leadership.
Does leadership have buy-in or are you as an innovation head that's coming into an organization, are you going to be met with an uphill battle?
Because leadership hasn't bought in. And so that's really important.
Culture, right? Cultures, they tend to roll their eyes at innovation, like, oh, here comes another hot shot with some good ideas.
Woof. That's not what we're talking about here.
Introducing, or indoctrinating people on the mindset of disciplined innovation or innovation discipline, it's a challenge.
It's a challenge because they're just not used to thinking in that way.
Josh:
What would you say to those who may listen to this episode and think, oh, yeah, we tried that once or we did that already.
What would you say to those orgs about really enculturating innovation as a discipline into their nonprofit leadership culture?
Stewart:
Yeah. For those that that say they've tried it, I don't know that that's true.
The numbers out there, when you look at industries as a whole, those that produce products and services, over 80% of the leadership or the product teams don't have consensus on what the need of the audience is.
Remember, a lot of us begin with assumptions. It's the assumptions that we know the audience.
We may grab research data and bring it in to help us inform, or to help us feel better about informing what we're going to do on a project.
But until you've actually peeled away assumptions about your audience that you've had for the last 3 to 10 years, right, you just run on those assumptions and you continue to do the work.
But until you've actually stepped back and fundamentally asked, what is that person trying to accomplish?
They've never really done a disciplined approach to innovation.
It's painstaking in the sense that you're starting from before ground zero, like you're really taking a few steps back that to most organizations don't feel necessary or they may be a drain on resources.
It's only human capital that's really involved at this stage.
But it's, I'm going to keep saying it, it’s just so critical to have an understanding of the core need of your audience.
What is the Jobs to be Done framework and how can it benefit nonprofits?
Josh:
Yeah. As we were talking in preparing for this episode, you mentioned, the importance of a framework for implementing innovation as a discipline.
And you mentioned the Jobs-to-be-Done Framework, which might be familiar to our audience.
Can you explain more about the Jobs-to-be-Done Framework and really its relevance to nonprofits?
I think most people think of that as a business framework.
And then also, how can the Jobs-to-be-Done Framework help nonprofits better understand their constituents’ needs?
Stewart:
I think the Jobs-to-be-Done is such an underutilized framework.
I remember when it came out, I was in my early career in Manhattan, and it was the early 2000s.
And it was first talked about by Clayton Christensen, I believe his name is.
Jobs-to-be-Done is the basic understanding for how a customer hires specific products and services to accomplish a job.
I'll give you a quick example. If I'm busy doing back to back Zoom calls, but my wife says, hey, Stewart, I need you to get started on dinner for me.
I'm really busy. I'll say, I'm busy too. I've got these back to back Zoom calls.
Well, she's delegated a task to me that needs to get done.
So now I have a job. And so I'm going to go and hire a rotisserie chicken from Whole Foods to go help me get that job done.
And so every day you and I have a series of tasks and jobs that need to be accomplished.
If an organization does not understand those jobs intimately and the desired outcomes that that person has, we've missed the whole point of producing a product or service to address those.
Josh:
How have you seen Jobs-to-be-Done working inside of nonprofits?
Maybe do you have an example of a successful use of that framework?
And, what were the results and kind of key takeaways from that experience?
Stewart:
Let me frame it by giving you a marketplace example.
So I'll do that, and then I'll go into the nonprofit just to get everybody's minds around this.
I like to use Netflix versus Blockbuster.
We know one of those does not exist anymore.
The reason for that is because Netflix understood that the need of the individual was to have entertainment, not to watch movies.
With that in mind, they understood that the competition was not just a Blockbuster type of business.
It was a bottle of wine. It was a date night. It was bowling. It was those other things.
So Netflix had the idea of how fast can we provide a solution for this individual to be able to entertain themselves? And it just happened to be with movies.
So, you know, they started with the DVD mail-ins. Blockbuster, still not understanding the need of the individual, copied the model of the mail-in DVDs.
They changed some things, but essentially it was the same thing.
While they were doing that, Netflix was investing in streaming servers, which today has allowed for us to be able to at a really quick flick of the wrist, entertain ourselves a lot quicker.
And so therefore Blockbuster is no more.
So that's just a quick example of how important it is to understand the need of the individual.
And at this point, we are not talking about felt needs.
Marketing likes to focus on felt needs. That comes later. This is a core need. And so that's a big focus for Jobs-to-be-Done.
In a nonprofit sector, it may look like, let's take fundraising is always the biggest topic in the nonprofit sector.
It may look like, well, what is the need of the donor?
Well, the donor comes at it from a different standpoint because they're not a consumer in the traditional sense.
They are giving because their heart is in the right place. Of course they're going to have tax breaks, right?
So understanding those two primary drivers for investing in an organization to do some good.
And I think we all understand that and I'm sorry for such a simple example, but what can we do once we understand two core needs?
How does that drive our strategies and tactics in serving that donor in a different way?
Perhaps it's deeper impact stories. Perhaps it's inviting them into the service of the nonprofit, having them be a true partner other than just a resource partner.
Can they be human capital that's utilized? That adds a sticky factor to that donor.
They are more inclined to stick with the organization once they see that the inner workings are for the benefit of the people that that donor gave money for.
And so there's that sticky factor. But that's a simple example.
But that's one way to understand the need and also to execute on that.
How nonprofits can leverage the Jobs to be Done Framework to drive innovation
Josh:
Yeah, I love that.
And even just talking in the past episodes of this podcast, it's just come up over and over again about the various ways that we can bring donors closer to the organization.
You know, things like, would they want to help start a local chapter?
Would they be interested in a board position? Now, granted, a board position, there are few and far between.
And the organization probably has a lot of donors. But are you thinking through that lens, even, as a way to endear them, to draw them in, to create that sticky factor that you talked about?
So Stewart we've talked about innovation as a discipline and the Jobs-To-Be-Done Framework.
Can you explain how they might complement each other and really how nonprofits can integrate these to drive that greater impact that you mentioned?
Stewart:
There's a holistic approach that I personally take, whether it's in the role that I'm playing now or when I'm consulting.
And I call it, Purpose Driven Impact, PDI.
And it's not just a Jobs-To-Be-Done Framework. It's also how does Jobs-To-Be-Done research method work with customer experience?
How does customer experience journey mapping work with work process mapping? Right?
It's called service blueprint. There's like an underpinning foundation to how operations function.
So it's not just that top level, hey this is a great framework for getting needs out.
But it's also, okay what happens with our customers? How do they move from place to place?
What is the process that takes place, let's say in the call center when donations are coming in or when we're making outbound phone calls to our donors and thanking them and seeing how they're doing and maybe communicating a good impact story?
What's the talk time on the call center? How much is that costing me? Right?
Can that process be different? How do we optimize at every level?
Especially when we talk about organizations that are donor supported, not typical revenue, but donor supported revenue like ministries, we really have to be efficient at how we rethink our marketing approach.
You can't just go out and buy media and have a six figure budget for that. How do we think differently about stewarding those resources better?
So it's a combination. It's a holistic approach of Jobs-To-Be-Done, journey mapping, service blueprint, work process mapping, root cause analysis.
These are terms that are, a lot of those latter terms are executed in the optics space, operational excellence, high reliability organizations like commercial airliners, hospitals, oil rigs.
How did those organizations function at such a high level? Because you talk about safety issues, right? And productivity issues.
Well, how do you ensure those things happen every day without some sort of casualty? And bringing that to the nonprofit space is a game changer.
And so as more and more leaders start to hear about this, they're like, wow, how do we do that?
How do we execute that? So that's just one way to look at, not just Jobs-To-Be-Done, but the whole gamut of that suite of operational excellence.
Essential metrics nonprofits should track to measure innovation effectiveness
Josh:
I love that. And switching to metrics. And, I love talking about measuring what matters.
And I think most nonprofits are not measuring or monitoring performance indicators, various metrics across the organization.
So when thinking about innovation as a discipline, what metrics or indicators would you recommend nonprofits look at to measure their innovation efforts?
Stewart:
That's a hard question. Every organization is different, yet they're all the same when it comes to KPIs and what drives success in the boardroom.
That's why we begin with that needs assessment because there is a desired outcome that comes from individuals and that desired outcome is quantifiable.
So you are able to turn that into a metric.
Much of what we do, especially on the ministry side, is very squishy, right? It's very relational.
And so for those that have a hard time wrapping metrics around something that's super squishy, like developing relationship or partnerships, perhaps some of those can be met with qualitative metrics.
So NPS score, Net Promoter Score, that a lot of organizations use to gauge the visibility of the brand or the success or the likelihood that you will recommend that brand or service.
Those are powerful metrics because they're part of a bigger narrative that we communicate to the board, to the donors, to the staff in the organization.
So I always say, do not undervalue the power of qualitative metrics.
Next to that is the operational initiatives. You know, what does process efficiency look like?
How has your capital expenditure decreased year over year when you've implemented this solution? What are some KPIs that we can use to gauge those?
You talk about leading indicators versus lagging indicators, right?
Lagging would be your revenue. Leading would be your NPS score for example, qualitative.
Like, how are we doing? How is this organization being viewed?
And so those leading indicators help you to start getting ahead of how you look at your operations, how you change your operations, the talent that you need moving forward, especially in marketing.
We need to start looking at hybrid talent in order to affect those metrics.
Because if you have a staff of traditional marketers, and then you have to hire a creative staff who happen to have automation skills and analytic skills and digital media buying skills, that's triple, quadruple the spend that you're doing in your marketing department.
So look at the hybrid, right? Being able to put a metric to that kind of talent.
Say how have they impacted the organization from a bottom line perspective?
And of course, you got your financial metrics - donor engagement, revenue growth, increase in frequency on smaller donations.
We can get into the weeds on the metrics, but that's a high level of the type of impact that a disciplined innovation approach can give you.
Josh:
Yeah, I love that. And I also think about, part of the culture piece of making innovation as a discipline part of your organizational culture.
Being able to put kind of what your innovation efforts have been in the past quarter or month.
Month, quarter, or year. Maybe even thinking about assigning innovation points, right?
Like every department is expected to have ten innovation points throughout the year or at the end of the year.
And that may be for finance, that may be using a new tool for reporting that is more efficient, or maybe even thinking through staffing.
How can we innovate in our staffing side when it comes to our accounting or our marketing?
So I think there's, like you said, there's qualitative ways, but even potentially quantitative ways, if you define it, about how you can really monitor, watch, promote, celebrate even kind of your innovation in your organization over a quarter or a year.
Stewart:
Yeah.
Developing a culture of innovation is communicating that innovation doesn't sit in one location or one department. How do we train up every single individual to become innovators in their own right? But in order to scale that efficiently, there has to be some sort of guardrails, some sort of discipline around it.
Yes, there is freedom and creativity within those confines, but it's got to be something that, again, I'm going to say it again, it's repeatable, it's predictable.
That gives everybody, especially on the finance side and on the donor side, some sense of safety and peace.
How nonprofit leaders can create a culture of innovation within their organizations
Josh:
Yeah, I mean that's going to be one of the biggest hurdles is leaders or ICs digging in their heels saying, this sounds like a lot of work without a promise of return.
But again, it starts at the top and you have to have that leadership buy-in.
So, transitioning over to really hurdles like we just talked about.
For those who may be starting an initiative like this or trying to adopt a culture of innovation, what advice would you give to nonprofit leaders who are just starting and really, what steps should they take to start integrating these principles into their organizations?
Stewart:
So I think it's a consensus that needs to be had amongst the leadership and having the humility to say something needs to change, we need to serve our staff, serve our constituents better than we are today.
And then identifying who do you listen to?
What are the key words we need to have our ears open to when a, let's say, consultant comes in and starts talking about innovation?
Right? I would say this. If a consultant comes in and starts talking about how they are going to change the organization and drive impact, I would put a pause on that.
What you want to hear is, hey, who in the organization can I partner with to understand what they have done to this point?
How can I serve your current audience in a way that you are thinking about serving them? It's that kind of relationship that you want to see the consultant have.
Because CEOs, they get razzled and dazzled by a lot of consultants that they meet at conferences or they have introduced through other referrals and every solution that isn't being executed in an organization presently is the shiny object. Right?
And we can't allow, organizations can't afford to be trying this and that.
Going back to what I said earlier when we started this podcast, you can't just try things here and there, to me, that's a waste of money. It's an inefficient way to approach changing an organization.
So having the ear to listen to words of humility.
How is that individual going to partner with the leaders in my organization, not be the cowboy who takes over and promises the promise land for all of us?
So, yeah, it's careful discernment.
Josh:
Yeah, yeah. So it sounds like you're saying humility and vision is how this is going to work.
And it makes me think too about some of the objections, maybe that would come from others.
That when they hear innovation, they think, oh, you're trying to get rid of my role.
How would you say, nonprofit leaders can really assuage those concerns, can lean into that instead of just not really addressing those concerns inside their organization.
Stewart:
Yeah. That sounds like a therapeutic kind of issue there. Like, it's not a me issue. It's a you issue.
Why do you assume I'm trying to remove your role?
And so opening them up in their own presupposition about why do you think they're on the chopping block when this innovation, or AI for example, that's the biggest concern right now, how can you leverage AI to serve your function better?
We want you to be more efficient, more successful. Does this tool allow for that?
So it's really starting with that question back to that individual on saying, hey, tell me about that concern of yours?
Why do you believe this innovation method or this AI practice, why do you think that's going to eliminate you from this role?
And so that helps to bring the guards down and have a real, frank conversation.
Closing thoughts
Josh:
Yeah, yeah.
So, Stewart, if you were standing on stage in front of a 1,000 nonprofit leaders and could share one thing, one sentence about innovation as a discipline, what would you say to the audience?
Stewart:
Don't let your present ideas, or misconceptions, or myths about innovation prevent you from taking that step forward into serving your organization and your audience better than you have served them in the past.
Josh:
Awesome, awesome.
Thinking about resources, Stewart, any resources out there that you would recommend?
Obviously the Jobs-To-Be-Done Framework, but what else?
Stewart:
Yeah. Fundamentally understanding the Jobs-To-Be-Done Framework.
But to be honest with you, those other methods that I put out there have spanned my 25 years in the MarTech and innovation space.
You know, whether I've been in startups or corporate. The combination of those disciplines, the innovation, the Jobs-To-Be-Done, the CX mapping, the work process mapping, root cause analysis, all those things have come together holistically to really impact an organization.
You've got to be able to take a step way back and look at the organization as a whole.
There's no agenda coming from innovation, right? Marketing has their thing, IT has their thing, every department has their own agenda, as they should.
But who is going to take a step way back, who has experience in all these disciplines to be able to say, I can see it, I got it, let's work. Let's begin the work.
So, sorry, that doesn't answer your question directly, but I do lay out some of those disciplines that most do not consider, when they're functioning as a COO or a head of innovation. Or maybe they do, I don't know.
Josh:
Yeah. And I'm just really excited about where things are at right now with AI and innovation is not AI, AI is not innovation.
But I think the AI wave is going to provide an opportunity for nonprofits to increasingly talk about innovation and how they can change for greater impact.
It's kind of giving permission, I think, for a lot of organizations that they may have been stuck in the past or struggled to adopt new technologies, new methods, which is just the start of innovation, as you've mentioned.
But I think we're at an exciting time where in five years forward, maybe ten years from now, we're going to look back and see a real shift in how nonprofits and ministries are doing their work, are making an impact, and caring for their people.
Because, again, this all hinges on the people aspect and how you bring your people along in this innovation journey.
Stewart:
Yeah, yeah. Well said. I would throw one more comment in there about AI.
Let's not mistake, let's not make the same mistake we made in 2007, 2011, 2014, when social media started.
When the smartphone came out in 2007 with iPhone and then Facebook, in what, 13-14, there were no how to manuals for how to ingest digital content.
It was kind of like a free for all. And so for the Gen Xers, it was our kids that suffered because there was no manual for, hey, here's are the guardrails around content consumption.
So with AI, do we have the opportunity to say, whoa, time out. Let's be discerning about how we roll out this technology, not just in our organizations, but also with our children.
So we have that opportunity to kind of go back and fix that a little bit. Be careful.
Josh:
Yes, yes. Look back, learn from our mistakes and, hopefully not make them again.
Awesome. Stewart, thanks so much for joining us on the podcast.
And love talking about innovation, love talking about how nonprofits can take next steps in innovation.
As always, for our audience, you can check out the show notes to find resources, learn more about Stewart.
That's Nonprofitpulse.com. Stewart, again, just thank you so much for coming on the podcast.
Stewart:
Yeah. Josh, thanks for having me. This was fun.
Josh:
Hey, thanks for listening.
If you enjoyed this conversation, please share or leave us a rating and review wherever you listen to podcasts.
Also, head on over to Nonprofitpulse.com to sign up for our monthly newsletter, as well as check out all the links and resources in the show notes. We’ll see you next time.
80 Community Service Ideas for Nonprofits
